“What’s been so amazing,” Posobiec said, “is what we do see happening throughout Europe and really throughout America is the rise of Gen Z returning to the Church. However, the Church that they’re returning to—and you see this with evangelicals as well, you see it with the Orthodox—they aren’t going back to the modern Vatican II Church. No. They’re going to the traditional rites, the ancient rite. What do you think is driving that back?”
Harnwell pointed to a generational backlash. “I think it’s a rejection of the whole boomer philosophy,” he said. “You’re seeing it in politics as well. Look how many people, younger than us—kids to us—how MAGA they are. They might not even be that political, but they know there’s something about President Trump that they respond to.”
Harnwell continued: “Social scientists have been pointing out for generations that kids rebel against their parents. What we’re really seeing is that rebellion taking place, not just on the political sphere but on the religious sphere as well—it’s across every matrix.”
Later in the episode, Posobiec raised the possibility of the conclave producing a pope more aligned with the Church’s traditional base: “As the days go longer, perhaps the faithful can be more hopeful that we get a non-progressive pope, someone potentially who is more interested in not persecuting traditional Catholics.”
But Harnwell remained skeptical: “I’m not that optimistic or hopeful. I reckon there’s going to be a progressive that comes out of the balcony—whatever happens. The way I heard it termed the other day, and I think it’s a useful way of defining it, is: are we going to get a revolutionary or simply a mere reformer?”
He added that Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin—seen as a leading candidate—“was considered to be a broadly moderate reformer, but not a revolutionary.”
The conversation took place just before black smoke billowed from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, signaling that no pope was elected in the first round of voting. Voting will resume tomorrow morning at 9:30 local time.
The secretive papal conclave officially began Wednesday morning as 135 cardinal-electors from around the globe entered the Sistine Chapel. Sequestered inside Vatican City, the cardinals are expected to vote up to four times per day until one man receives the two-thirds majority necessary to become the next pope.
Until then, the cardinals will continue shuttling between the Sistine Chapel and Casa Santa Marta, the guesthouse where Pope Francis lived during his pontificate. The electors include 53 cardinals from Europe, 23 from Asia, 18 from Africa, 17 from South America, 16 from North America, and four each from Central America and Oceania.
If no pope is chosen after three days of voting, the conclave will pause for a day of prayer and reflection before resuming. No conclave has lasted longer than four days since 1841.
Watch the full episode below:
