In the September 1 issue, HUMAN EVENTS published an interview with Republican California State Sen. Tom McClintock, who is running for governor in California's special October 7 election on whether to recall incumbent Democratic Gov. Gray Davis.
On September 15, the editors of HUMAN EVENTS interviewed Republican Rep. Dana Rohrabacher about the recall election. Rohrabacher, who has built a strong and consistent conservative record in the House of Representatives (lifetime American Conservative Union rating, 96%), supports Republican actor Arnold Schwarzenegger in the recall race.
In his conversation with HUMAN EVENTS, Rohrabacher made the case for why he believes conservatives in California should vote for Schwarzenegger. Here is an edited transcript of that conversation.
Congressman, do you have any formal role in Arnold Schwarzenegger's gubernatorial campaign?
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER: I'm active in the campaign to the degree my time lets me be active as someone who is advocating that people vote for him. But I hold no appointed position or any title.
You're just a California Republican who supports Schwarzenegger for governor.
ROHRABACHER: Right. And, I guess because I'm a congressman, people listen to me.
What is the gist of the case for why conservatives in California should cast their votes for Schwarzenegger on October 7?
ROHRABACHER: The gist is that anyone who casts their vote for anybody besides Arnold Schwarzenegger is actually casting a ballot that will result in the Davis-Bustamante regime continuing in power.
You're one of the Members of Congress who adheres pretty closely to the things HUMAN EVENTS supports. You're anti-tax, pro-life, oppose gun control and racial preferences, etc., and it appears to many conservatives that Arnold Schwarzenegger is against all those things that you're for. Why are you backing him for governor of California?
ROHRABACHER: He's not as bad on any of those issues as the current regime is, and a vote for anybody else except Arnold is a vote to continue the current regime.
In counter to the case you make, California State Sen. Tom McClintock and his people point out that since this campaign has started, he has moved up in the polls, and Arnold has more or less stagnated.
ROHRABACHER: He's only moved up in the liberal-left polls that are trying to convince people he's a viable candidate to drain votes away from Arnold. The Los Angeles Times poll and the Field poll are worthless. They always have been. They've always been tools to try and manipulate public opinion, and this is no different. All the other polls show McClintock actually losing votes, and Bustamante staying about the same, and Arnold taking off like a rocket.
You think that the Times and Field polls are actually tilted to make McClintock look stronger than he is?
ROHRABACHER: There is no doubt that the liberal left establishment, including the LA Times, is trying to their best to convince conservative voters to vote for McClintock.
What are the good polls that have been published that show Schwarzenegger gaining momentum and McClintock falling?
ROHRABACHER: Stanford University just did a poll about a week ago, for example, that showed Arnold like at 40% and McClintock, I think, was down at 8% or something. I don't have that at my fingertips. But there have been about eleven polls, and the Los Angeles Times poll is the one that showed McClintock coming up and Arnold below Bustamante. It also shows a very limited support for the recall. All the other polls, every one of the other polls, showed just the opposite.
McClintock very narrowly lost the State Controller's race last November by 0.4% of the vote. He almost got 50% of the vote statewide. If he could score that high in the Controller's race, why wouldn't he be able to get that kind of vote, or at least somewhere up the 30's, in this recall election?
ROHRABACHER: Well, he isn't scoring that high right now. The same voters are considering his candidacy, who supposedly voted for him for Controller, and how come he's not scoring that high right away? He's not scoring that high because people wanted to have at least some vestige of conservative power in the state government that could keep an eye on these crooks, and McClintock would do a good job at that.
Let's say that I'm a liberal, and I want to see the liberal agenda implemented in California. Why would I be disappointed at an Arnold Schwarzenegger victory, as opposed to a Cruz Bustamante victory? Could you outline particular points?
ROHRABACHER: On the issues that conservatives are concerned about, the current Bustamante-Davis regime is way to the left of those issues. Arnold's tried to meet conservatives and liberals mostly halfway, down the middle, on those issues. The liberal-left Democrats don't meet anybody halfway on those things that are important to conservatives. In many other areas that Arnold does agree with us on, he will be a breath of fresh air. Now, that's just issues-wise, but you also have to take into consideration the effect that Arnold will have on the dynamics of California politics. I'm sorry, but Tom McClintock, as much as I really agree with everything that he stands for, is not bringing any new people into the party or into the system. Arnold Schwarzenegger already is bringing huge numbers of new people into this party, who have never been involved in politics before, and are willing to listen to the Republican side of things now.
I'll give you an example: Twenty-five hundred people have volunteered in Orange County to work in Arnold's campaign, to work precincts, to do things. Almost none of them are currently registered on Republican activist rolls. This is an enormous shift into the party, and these people are basically novices, who have open minds and are willing to listen. Arnold has a star quality that will bring them in.
Which specific items in the Schwarzenegger agenda would liberals disapprove of, or would conservatives be happy about?
ROHRABACHER: Arnold's already made clear that he's against partial birth abortion, and in favor of parental notification. Liberals are way on the other side of that. On gay rights, Arnold is not in favor of gay marriages. He's for a domestic partnership act but he's not in favor of recognizing that as a marriage. Liberals are in favor of making it a marriage.
He's in favor of gay adoption, though, right?
ROHRABACHER: I'm not sure if he is or not. Just like Bill O'Reilly's in favor of gay adoption. I just don't know.
A lot of people are picturing this as a battle for the soul of the Republican Party in California. Some would argue that if Arnold Schwarzenegger wins this election, it would basically hand the party over to the state's moderate wing. How do you respond to that?
ROHRABACHER: I say people who talk that way are enemies of freedom because they are giving the state over to the most liberal-left political machine in the country. We need the moderates in the party to vote for conservatives, we need the conservatives to vote for moderates, or the liberal-left gangsters are going to control California.
Do you believe, as many people say, that a conservative cannot win statewide in California?
ROHRABACHER: I think that at this point a conservative cannot win California. I think that if we create some new dynamics, we can change that situation. But at this point, we can't, that's correct.
The last Republican who was elected governor of California, Pete Wilson, did so, a lot of people thought, on the back of Proposition 187, which would have denied state-funded schools, services and non-emergency health care to illegal aliens.
ROHRABACHER: No doubt about it.
Do you believe that the fiscal problems in California can be solved if the state continues to bear the burden of the education and health care costs of illegal aliens?
ROHRABACHER: No. I think illegal immigration is one of the most important issues facing California. Arnold is not with me 100%, but he'll be with me more than Bustamante and Davis will.
If he comes out for an [illegal immigration] amnesty, you're going fight against Arnold Schwarzenegger on that issue.
ROHRABACHER: No, I'm going to fight against that issue.
On his website, Arnold says, "I support the state's current family planning programs, and as governor would make no changes to this policy." The state of California currently pays for abortions with tax dollars.
ROHRABACHER: Right.
You don't agree with that, do you?
ROHRABACHER: I don't, no.
I mean, isn't that an egregious thing?
ROHRABACHER: I don't agree with having abortions, period.
But isn't it egregious for a Republican candidate for governor to say, "I'm a fiscal conservative, but I'm going to tax people to pay for other people's abortions?"
ROHRABACHER: I would vote that way [against funding abortions] in a heartbeat. That makes Arnold different on this issue than I am, but he's better on this issue than Gray Davis and Bustamante.
How specifically is Gray Davis worse on that issue?
ROHRABACHER: Davis and Bustamante want partial-birth abortion, and having government funding for it. Arnold, at the very least, is not going to go along with any partial-birth abortion.
It's not entirely impossible that something could happen, and Arnold Schwarzenegger could drop out of the race, leaving McClintock. If the party establishment rallied around McClintock, don't you think he could win?
ROHRABACHER: No.
Why not?
ROHRABACHER: Look, the dynamics are so different out here in California now, even with this incredible outrage toward Davis and Bustamante, and their political regime. The population is not going to be supportive, at this moment, of a conservative Republican. It's changed. People have got to recognize that change, or we'll be keeping in power these really, far-left liberals like David and Bustamante. It's not the same state where Ronald Reagan was elected. It just isn't. I wish it were! I'd love if it were. But it's not.
You're a signer of the National Americans for Tax Reform tax pledge, which basically says you're not going to vote to raise taxes in any situation.
ROHRABACHER: Oh, no, no, no. I think my pledge just says I will vote against taxes unless there's another decrease in taxes somewhere else.
Right. It has to be offset dollar-for-dollar.
ROHRABACHER: Yes, right. That's my understanding.
Schwarzenegger has refused to take that pledge. Although he complained about taxes he would not commit to not raising taxes. In California there needs to a two-thirds majority [in the legislative] to increase taxes. The Republicans in the legislature have not cooperated with the Davis regime on a tax increase, and they would not likely cooperate with a Bustamante regime. Wouldn't they be more likely to cooperate with a Republican governor if he decides that there's really a budget emergency and he needs a tax increase?
ROHRABACHER: I would recommend to them that they not do that. If Arnold comes up with a proposal to raise taxes, I would suggest that we Republicans stick to our guns. Look, Arnold has instincts that are against raising taxes. He's not a guy who has studied these things. He does not have a quick stereotyped answer, or quick clich??©d answer, that will then satisfy the question and make it look like someone standing on principle, but it really hasn't taken us any closer in the state to one position or another. Arnold needs to study this, but we have to recognize that he has the right gut instincts. He's a small government guy. He's low tax guy. He's a non-regulatory guy. And that's why people like Milton Friedman and myself [are for him].
He's open to all kinds of new ideas. I'll give you an example: I talked to him about the voucher initiative a few years ago. Now, he is not now supporting vouchers. He's being very nebulous on certain issues. But it was very clear to him that he liked vouchers, because you've got that competition in the schools, because the schools aren't doing their job, these poor children aren't being educated. After telling me how concerned he was about education, instead of saying, "We should just give more money to the schools," he said, "We should bring in things like vouchers."
Perhaps it would be better for him not take that stand before he gets elected, so that the teachers throughout the state don't go on the warpath and decide to target him and spend a lot of money to defeat him. Maybe that's the better way, to go and be nebulous. I saw Ronald Reagan be nebulous on a lot of things.
Two days after meeting with representatives from the teacher's union, Schwarzenegger had his August 20th press conference, in which he said that education spending is off the table. If you're not going to touch education, balancing the budget means eliminating a quarter of the remaining spending. Is there any way to do that, other than raise taxes?
ROHRABACHER: I think there is. But you have to remember I'm not Arnold Schwarzenegger, and I'm willing to make a lot more cuts, I think, than most people are. I think we can reduce the size of government very dramatically, if we have the will to do so. Now Arnold's already said we're going put a lid on government spending. All we have to do is put a lid on things, including the education money, and after a few years you'll end up growing your way into a balanced budget.
You mentioned that if you were governor, you would be willing to make deep cuts. You seem to imply, as a lot of people think, that Schwarzenegger might not be willing to make so many cuts. But doesn't that leave him as the only option some kind of revenue increase, a tax hike, at a certain point, when you have such a huge crisis like the one the Democrats have created in California?
ROHRABACHER: I don't know. I think his instincts go totally in the opposite direction. I am not a state legislator so I can't tell you that. But all I can say is that he honestly would try to go in the opposite direction, and if he proposes tax increases that are not consistent the idea of keeping the tax load at an equal level to now, or less than what it is now, Republicans should not support it.
Many conservatives have been complaining that the Republican Party, including in Congress where you serve, has abandoned limited government conservatism, that they are increasing spending way too much, and perhaps are even about to create a new entitlement program. How do you make the argument that electing Arnold Schwarzenegger as the Republican governor of the biggest state, given all the liberal views he does have, will not lead towards a further drift to the left in the national Republican Party?
ROHRABACHER: The only thing well, the only thing that's going to change reality is if we are able to have debates within the Republican Party with people who we are not now debating with. Arnold would bring all kinds of new people into the party in California. We need to talk to them. We need to make our case to them. They aren't listening to us now. Without Arnold, we leave California government in the hands of the left wing of the Democratic Party. A vote for anybody else except Arnold is a vote for that. I cannot believe that it is in our interests as conservatives to see that fewer people come in to the Republican Party, and that we leave the government of this state in the liberal left.
But you don't want to see the national party move more in Arnold's direction, do you?
ROHRABACHER: I think that the national party has a lot more options than we do in California. And, by the way, to the degree that you're thinking Arnold's going to pull the party over towards a liberal direction on certain issues, I would contend to you that the Republicans will probably pull Arnold more to a conservative direction than he'll be pulling the party in a liberal direction.
Should McClintock drop out, or will his dropping out endanger a majority vote on recalling Davis?
ROHRABACHER: Let me put it this way to you: McClintock's candidacy, if he gets any substantial vote, is bad for conservatives, and it's bad for California, either way. I'll tell you this: If Arnold loses by a few percentage points, and McClintock has 10% of the vote, the conservatives out here are going to be known as eccentric spoilers. We will have lost any credibility with the biggest chunk of Republicans in the party. If Arnold wins by 2 or 3 percentage points, and you've got McClintock getting 10% of the vote, all you've told Arnold and the other moderate Republicans is, "We don't need the conservatives to win." Either way it's a bad message and it's bad for the conservative movement and it's bad for California.
But if McClintock' s people stay home, which some might, because they adamantly support him, wouldn't that endanger the "yes" vote on the recall?
ROHRABACHER: It might. I don't know. I haven't studied that that much. All I know is that I've made a lot of calls to my constituents at random, Republicans, and they have indicated to me an overwhelming support for Arnold. Those who were for McClintock, which was about maybe 10%, they were smart enough to say, "Hey, we're going to hold off and hold off, and if right before the election it looks like McClintock doesn't have a chance, we'll vote for Arnold just to make sure we don't get Davis and Bustamante back in there."
Thank you Congressman, we really appreciate it.
ROHRABACHER: Good enough.
